tv MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle MSNBC January 17, 2019 6:00am-7:00am PST
but, you know, joe, i mean, this country -- >> or proctologist. >> it's great for o'rourke or any of the candidates to spent more time out in the country. >> listening to people instead of voices in your head. looping. >> a lot of therapists will say looping is very unhealthy. okay no looping. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks, mika. hi there, i'm stephanie ruhle. this morning, first, it was no collusion. then it was collusion is not a crime. now this. from mayor rudy giuliani. >> i never said there was no collusion between the campaign. or between people and the campaign. i have no idea. >> yes, you have. >> i have not. >> but, mr. giuliani, let's go to the tapes. because the tape says otherwise. and this comes as a new report reveals michael cohen helped rig
polls in favor of the president. not in her house. speaker pelosi could shut down the state of the union as negotiations between the white house and democrats have hit a wall. and 800,000 federal workers are still not getting paid. >> i don't think they understand at all. 78% of america lives from paycheck to paycheck. they care nothing about the american people. >> new worries this morning about its long term impact opn the u.s. economy and a possible recession. we're going to twin this morning -- well, the president likes to control the narrative with a stunning walkback by president trump's personal attorney giuliani involving russia and the trump campaign.
surprising everyone with a new deb denial of collusion. he's now saying he never said that it didn't happen. do you get that? we have an incredible panel to help. first, these remarkable new comments by giuliani. he's now claiming that he never said there was no collusion between the trump campaign and russia leading up to the 2016 presidential election. what's more, he insists his claim of no collusion only applied to president trump. >> i never said interethere was collusion between the campaign. >> yes, you have. >> i said the president of the united states. there's no evidence the president of the united states committed the only crime, conspired with the russians to hack the dnc. >> giuliani has previously
stated no collusion between president trump and russia. he also stated there's no collusion with the trump campaign. you don't have to take my word for it. the president likes to say fake news as does rudy giuliani. you can listen for yourself. here's the tape. >> is it still the po silgs of you and your client there was no collision with the russians whatsoever on behalf of the trump campaign? >> correct. no evidence of any collusion on the part of the president or maybe anybody else for that matter. this probe from the nature of the questions and everything else we know. there's a good reason why. it never took place. >> giuliani's claim also contradicts the commander in chief. president trump has repeatedly said there is no collusion at all between russia and himself or anyone in his campaign and he said it again just this past
saturday. >> everybody knows there was no collusion. they won't find collusion. because i had nothing to do -- i was a better candidate than hillary clinton. >> let's go live to the white house and nbc's peter alexander. what happened to the trump administration's line that there was no collusion at all by anyone and the campaign? walk me through sort of the time line and now the walkbacks. >> to be very clear, we pulled up tweets from the president where he says among other things the trump campaign did nothing wrong, no collusion. they've said and he said the trump campaign did nothing wrong. the last 12 hours, the sort of deevolution, the latest round of the deevolution of the effort to try and deny any connections with the russians. let's take you back to the beginning. initially, the argument for the white house dating back to the days after the president won was that there was no communication
between the president and the campaign. then it was there was no contacts planned. then it was there were some contacts but they were not with the campaign. they went on to say there were some contacts but they were not even iffingful. that's just the start. you'll remember the president ultimately would say collusion is not a crime. he would say he couldn't collusion because he didn't have any direction rich to va relati putin. now the president didn't collude but it's possible scope omeone s campaign colluded. a watering down of their denials as they try to separate the president from this. this is what we've heard, this idea there was no collusion. seems like they're backing off that claim. >> this thing is stunning. i got to bring my panel in.
former assistant u.s. attorney kim whaley. attorney midwin charles. associate columnist for real clear politics a.b. stoddard. and co-host of the words matter pod cast, my friend elise jordan. i got a great female cast today. my first question to mayor giuliani. if manafort was some rogue drifter part of the campaign for a very short time and during that part of the campaign was giving away data, sharing data, making deems with onliy gas olit would help him pay back personal
debts, why aren't you furious with him? doesn't make sense to me. elise. >> i wonder what is about to drop. we've seen giuliani drop these media bomb shshell also right before mueller announces a big boom. time line indictment. does make me wonder if there is something rudy giuliani is trying to preempt by introducing a new narrative. >> midwin, if that's the new narrative, trump didn't do it, is giuliani forgetting who was standing to the right and left of the president? it was his children and s son-in-law. many associates have already turned on the president. >> that's how this movie has been going for the past year and a half ever since robert mueller was sort of appointed to do this job.
giuliani is an attorney. it means his job is to represent his client zealously. and to be a spokesperson, his advocate. the problem with giuliani is he is engaging in this walkback defense and all he's done is chip away amount trump's credibility. the model rules of professional responsibility which all attorneys are is up povd s ars follow. there's one particular rule. it's one of the shortest rules. which is in the course of representing a client, a lawyer shall not knowingly make a false statement of material fact or law to a third person. >> wahat's the consequence? >> the counsnsequence is no one believes donald trump. >> we could sit here and mornck
jewel yagiuliani all day. >> not where it matters which is in the court of law. >> they're not in the court of law, he's on cnn. >> what we do know is we have robert mueller amassing testimony and documents. a huge drop the other day to show how manafort lied to the court. it comes back to a stack of paper also this thing. at the end of the day, you have mueller working in the real world and you have giuliani working in the fake world. the problem is the two things at some point are going to come head to head. what we've seep in the past two years is people fudging the truth. the reporter did a phenomenal
job in showing how far we've walked back from day one. now we're, well, okay, i'm just saying maybe donald trump didn't have contact. what happens is you have no credibility. >> all right. kim, does any of this affect robert mueller's investigation? while rudy giuliani has lost all credibility with people possibly at this table, he doesn't care abouts at this table. he cares about trump's base. where does robert mueller fall into this. >> there are two pieces. one is if there are crimes committed. the second is the lies. usually people say it's not the underlying action, it's the cover up. here, it's the coverup and the underlying action. historically all these lies by
trump and his team are relevant to that particular issue. even on merits of this question of, okay, collusion or not, there's 16-plus contacts now directly within the campaign to the russianings. we know that. that's public. we also know from filings related to cohen that he spoke to trump about the russia/moscow tower deal during the election. we know the fbi opened a counterintelligence investigation to mr. trump. we know that a federal court has taken, accepted a plea in which -- and the department of justice has put in writing that mr. trump directed his lawyer to commit crimes under the federal campaign finance act. we also know that trump had multiple secret dealings, meetings with mr. putin where he kicked people out of the room. he told them to, you know, tear up notes of the interpreters and then gets on air force one in one instance and dictates a false memo relating to the key,
one of the key pivotal moments in this whole narrative, the trump tower meeting in which his team was -- went to get dirt from the russians on hillary clinton. i think what he's doing is play off the confusion and tsunami of information relating to a big arc of wrongdoing by this president by just saying no, no, we didn't collude. i think that's easy for people who aren't as steeped as this panel is and you are in the details to just cling on to but the facts are so far from that and we only know it a little bit. the reason we know is because there was a mistake in a redaction by his lawyers. i mean, that was like a like blip and my guess is there's mountains of information that mueller has so i don't think he cares a hoot about what giuliani has to say. >> by manafort's own lawyers. again, why isn't trump and giuliani turning on manafort
with that news out there? a.b., what do you make of the strategy? >> well, his job is to come out and just go on tv. and jewuliany is his tv lawyer. he's not really helping him with the mueller strategy. >> he's hurting him. >> yes, there are moments when i think that rudy has made it clear he's throwing his reputation into the ash heap for the history books and that's unfortunate. it is a strategy as we've all said, a political strategy in terms of impeachment. just how to continue to convince the base that all of this is b.s. and doesn't matter anyway even if people say collusion is now cool and that way you keep senators on board. they still are afraid that once faced with the fact like the ones you point out about paul manafort who was in touch with
the white house and possibly trump himself in may of 2018 during this is the fact that senators when this is all revealed might look at this and say, i don't care what my voters think of trump, these are real facts. this is still the strategy, to keep senators and the republican party on board so that he can't be convicted if he's impeached in the house. giuliani's job is to go out and barf out world salads. >> he nails it. >> he's made it clear to us he doesn't care about getting his reputation back. >> talking about this "wall street journal" piece. reporting that president trump's former fixer, form earl attorney general michael cohen who trumps like to say barely worked for him as it relates to politics, he paid a technology expert to rig online polls before the presidential election. one was about the president's popularity in terms of running. and the other, a cnbc poll aimed at showing the president to be a
bigger business guy than he was. also to create a twitter profile, women for cohen. i want to show how the bio for this profile -- women who love and support michael cohen, strong, pit bull, sex symbol, no nonsense, business oriented and ready to make a difference. i want to point out -- >> pit bull? >> truly, i thought with the death of burt reynolds, sex symbol wasn't a term used anymore. alas, it is. the white house hasn't responded to this. what do you make of it? >> another example watch trump's top advisers are focused on, smoke and mirrors and their own egos. this is a tinder profile of sorts on twitter advertising michael cohen -- >> sex symbol, strong. >> business man. and that -- at the time that you're working in a fairly major
role as an adviser to a contender for president of the united states, you still care about women for cohen. >> that's even the nonsense portion of it. we're talking about poll rigging. michael cohen has responded and put out a tweet saying as for the "wall street journal" article on poll rigging, what i did was at the direction of and for the sole benefit of donald trump. i truly regret my blind loyalty to a man who doesn't deserve it. what do you make of this? >> pole rigging. that's astonishing. it's in keeping with the narrative being built publicly about russians rigging the election. that's established by the national security team in the government. but two, number two, the trump team was part of that. people talk about collusion. it would matter for purposes of impeachment. we've got manafort was feeding
data to the russians. very specific data. it's very sad, think about this, focus on these people and put stuff in their comb it's poohers and their feed so they don't vote, right? in addition, the president's lawyer coming out and saying he was rigging, also taking steps to rig poll data. if this were a tv afterschool special, we'd turn it off because it would seem so insane it could never happen. i think february 7 when michael cohen comes out and tells his story and weaves all of this stuff together in a way that makes sense to people, this is what i did and this is why, i think the public consciousness or unconsciousness about whether this matters could shift. because it's going to make sense on a human level what this man's story was. >> we do have to put the circus
nature and the humor of it aside. and the seriousness of poll rigging. i want to take you back to what the president -- remember, he was the one who was constantly haranguing as louis ruehl would say about poll rigging, poll rigging, poll rigging. take a look. >> when the people who control the political power in our society can rig investigations like her investigations was rigged, can rig polls. you see these phony polls. and rig the media. they can wield absolute power over your life, your economy and your country. and benefit big time by it. >> donald trump is a master at projecting. just about everything he complains about from the time he decided to run till now is something he himself or someoneness administration has
done. to find out, we don't know if this is true, he directed cohen to do this poll rigging, bingo, he's done that. to claiming that hillary clinton was somehow in cahoots with goldman sachs. remember the hoopla about the speeches and, you know, publish the speeches? why? because what did he do? he came in and instead of saying he's going to drain the swamp, he filled the swam with all kinds of shady grifter-type characters. we have seen this, you know, time and time again with donald trump. and, again, i can't even understand and it boggles the mind we are hear in this country, that in the united states of america, we have a president saying and doing these things, zero credibility. it's the one word i can say about president trump. >> i will pay attention when michael cohen speaks. the one thing i keep wanting to ask him, you didn't get drafted. didn't get forced.
you chose to do it. the women for cohen support you in doing so. amazing. pit bull. sex symbol. chemicaling up, speaker pelosi's power play suggesting the president not give a televised state of the union. we're going to discuss what this does for the negotiations over the partial government shutdown. i hate even calling it partial whe when 800,000 people aren't getting paid. first, rapper and -- some call her pop star cardi b had a few choice words for what is going on in washington. >> i just want to remind you because it's been a little bit, over three weeks. our country is in a hellhole right now. over the [ bleep ] wall. i feel like we need to take some action. action
your brain changes as you get older. but prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. (pirate girl) ahoy!!!!! gotcha! (girl) nooooooooooooo! (man) nooooo! (vo) quick, the quicker picker upper! bounty picks up messes quicker, and is two times more absorbent. bounty, the quicker picker upper. we all make excuses for the things we don't want to do. but when it comes to colon cancer screening... i'm not doin' that. i eat plenty of kale. ahem, as i was saying... ...with cologuard, you don't need an excuse...
all that prep? no thanks. that drink tastes horrible! but...there's no prep with cologuard... i can't take the time off work. who has two days? and i feel fine - no symptoms! everybody, listen! all you need is a trip to the bathroom. if you're 50 or older and at average risk, cologuard is the noninvasive option that finds 92% of colon cancers. you just get the kit in the mail, go to the bathroom, collect your sample, then ship it to the lab! this is your year! own it! cologuard is not right for everyone. it is not for high risk individuals, including those with a history of colon cancer or precancer, ibd, certain hereditary cancer syndromes, or a family history of colon cancer. ask your doctor if cologuard is right for you. covered by medicare and most major insurers.
ask your doctor if cologuard is right for you. hey, batter, batter, [ crowd cheers ] like everyone, i lead a busy life. but i know the importance of having time to do what you love. at comcast we know our customers' time is valuable. that's why we have 2-hour appointment windows, including nights and weekends. so you can do more of what you love. my name is tito, and i'm a tech-house manager at comcast. we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome.
welcome back. i'm stephanie ruhle. house speaker nancy pelosi is threatening to take away one of the things trump loves the most, a televised audience. she sent a letter telling him he should postpone the state of the union due to security concerns made worse by the government shutdown. she wrote, quote, unless government reopens this week, i suggest we work together to determine another suitable date after government has reopened for this address or for you to consider delivering your state of the union address in writing to congress on january 29. dhs secretary kirstjen nielsen
said security would not be a problem. but pelosi said it would make more sense for the president to just deliver the state of the union from somewhere else. >> do you hope he sees this as a consequence of the government shutdown? >> this is a housekeeping matter in the congress of the united states so we can honor responsibility for the invitation we extended to the president. he can make it from the oval office if he wants. >> according to "the washington post," president trump was, quote, indifferent to pelosi's letter. the white house has decided not to respond because they're not sure if she's actually trying to cancel the event or just making a political statement but if she is trying to hit the president where it hurts, this could be the way to do it. last year, 45 million people watched state of the union, more than any event outside the super bowl. but the bottom line is trump cannot deliver the state of the union in the house chamber without pelosi's blessing. senator schumer said if the
state of the union doesn't happen as planned, the president has nobody to blame but himself. >> well what is the state of the uni union? the government is closed because of president trump. if it continues to be closed on the 29th, i think it's a good idea to delay it until the government is open. >> of course, republicans see it differently. the top republican in the house kevin mccarthy slammed the speaker for this move. saying she is putting politics ahead of the country. >> speaker pelosi should act like a speaker and have the president and keep her word like she invited him. there's no security issue. it's pure politics and it's wrong. it's unbecoming of a speaker to do this. >> have we heard back from pelosi's office? kevin mccarthy is almost mocking her saying there's no security issue here. has she responded and said there's no emergency at the
border and that's what started this whole thing? >> not yet, she's got a press conference this morning. i'll be there. if somebody else doesn't ask about it, i'll be sure to ask her about it. mccarthy shocked that politics would be practiced here in this body. here's where we stand. nancy pelosi knows the soft power of the speakership better than anybody else. it's not just about counting votes and what can pass through the house. there are ways to use this power. although she talks entirely about the scurt s ecurity aspec political aspects are legitimate. the president can't just walk into the house of representatives and give a speech without being invited. he can't give the state of union address without being invited. he could show up on the senate side and be invited to speak in front of the 100 desks there, but it's just not the same. it might take something more creative or more ex-existential
to get us out of the stalemate. the person i've been watching for the last couple of weeks on this has been lindsey graham who tries to put himself in the middle of any deal being done in the senate and even he's not sounding particularly optimistic. >> how does this end? it ends with compromise. the house is not going to be the center of gravity. it's going to be the center. i told the president based on doing this for a while that the best play, sit down with a bipartisan group in the senate. i think we get a big group in the senate and the house follows. >> these gangs, these bipartisan deals in the senate, keep getting their ideas shot down. so trying something different, putting pressure on the president in different ways, may be a way to break this. i've heard from numerous democrats and each some republicans over last few days that they don't think the president sees this the same way
the american people do, sees it beyond the politics, sees the folks who have been hurt by the shutdown in the same way they do and this may be a way to make him realize washington will not just go on as usual during this shutdown, steph. >> this shutdown now in its 27th day. if it is still going on by january 29th, it will be almost twice as long as any other government shutdown in u.s. history. at that point, those 800,000 federal workers will have already missed at least two paychecks and be on the verge of missing a third. nbc's ron allen has been speaking to some of those workers. i always want to remind our audience it is not just those 800,000 workers, it is their community communities. a lot of ancillary businesses. and a lot they owe money to. what are they telling you? >> it's one thing to talk about 800,000 government workers.
really another thing to talk about individual people. mothers and fathers, workers. working hard all over the country. here at the airport, we've been talking to some of the tsa workers. everything looks normal and fine. people going to their flights. because the workers are here, showing up, they're on time. doing their jobs. they're stopping terrorist attacks perhaps. and they're of course not getting paid. we want to introduce you to a young couple. tyrone, his wyche ebony and their little boy, 7 months old, josiah. they just bought a house. they missed one paycheck. they'll miss another one next week. the way he told it, i can't tell the mortgage brokers, the folks at the grocery store, i'll pay you in a couple weeks. they need cash now. here's some of our conversation about how they're feeling. how tough a situation is it for you? >> takes on many forms. physical frustration. mental frustration.
mainly mental. >> because you don't know when it's going to end. >> exactly. sometimes mental can lead to physical exhaustion. >> some say that tsa is important or that national security is important and then not to pay the people who are actually performing service as tsa agents, i think that's not right. >> many% of america, 78% of america live paycheck to paycheck. they care nothing about the american people, as they say they do. >> when we ended that, he went to bed because he had to get up at 2:30 in the morning to be here at the airport at 4:00 a.m. in the morning. imagine doing something like that. knowing you're not going to get paid. he talked about the sense of duty. they took an oath for this job. one other thing, this, is the
third time in five year he's been furloughed. they're doing the best they can but just feeling caught in an unbelievable situation they really have no control over and nothing they can do about it. it's just really amazing when you come out here and talk to real people about what's going on with this government shutdown. guys. >> ron, thank you so much. i want to talk to workers going to work every single day keeping us safe, thank you. now a tragic development in syria. the images you're about to see are disturbing. central command confirming four americans including two service members were among the 19 killed in a suicide attack at a syrian market yesterday. an attack that isis quickly claimed responsibility for. hours after the explosion rocked the city, vice president pence echoed the president's earlier claim that isis is no longer a threat. >> thanks for the leadership and the courage of our armed forces,
we're now actually able to hand off the fight to our coalition partners and we're bringing our troops home. the caliphate has crumbled. isis has been defeated. >> i invite vice president pence to say to the four americans who lost their lives. here is our guest, courtney cuby. what else do we know about the attack and the victims and when the administration was informed? because my mind's blown by vice president's comments. >> so information -- they'll always be the early reports that will come in and they go to the white house. so they would have been informed of this before we in the media knew much of anything. this happened in syria, which has actually been a success story for the feight against iss
over the last several months. where the u.s. and the turks have been engaged in joint patrols for the past several months. there's been very little isis presence here. what this attack illustrates is what will be the long-term problem in the fight against isis. and that is while they may not be holding territory, they'll have sleeper cells. they will have lone wolves who can pop up and they can inflict damage and death, you know, throughout the country and really as they've shown they can -- these lone wolf attacks can be in europe, in the united states. mambage has been a place that hasn't seen much of an isis presence in the past several months. these americans were at a restaurant at the time of the attack. a suicide bomber. right now, we still believe to be a lone suicide bomber approached them at this restaurant and detonated himself, killing a number of syrians in addition to killing the four americans and wounding three more u.s. service members, steph. >> all right, courtney, thank you. i want to bring a.b. and elise
back in. you advised on policy. from a policy perspective, how does this affect the president's plans in the regen? >> well, donald trump has not been operating from a standard policy playbook where there is a process driving his announcements. he makes a ad hoc announcement we're withdrawing troops from syria. then his advisers go into the region, just as pompeo did. and they are speaking from a different playbook. i think that in theory, wi withdraws 1700 troops from syria and prosecuting the war against isis from iraq, i think it's feasible. am i confident this administration is going to take the practical steps necessary to implement a policy like that? no. >> what do you make of vice president trump's comments?
my parents watch conservative media. when they watch vice president pence make a statement like that on conservative media, they'll believe it and it's not the zblu truth. >> it's shocking on so many levels. >> but it's not an accident. >> let's start with the fact he has a son in the marine corps and knows better. he p he knows this is the worst message to our men and women in uniform. he knows it's the worst message to the american voters. we all know that mission accomplish statements in the war on terror are dangerous. he still got up there and just said something that wasn't true. if you look back at that video the president made calling on the approval and the wishes of the war dead for his withdrawal from syria in late december and the boomerang reaction to that, it's amazing vice president pence would be willing to make those remarks.
the pushback came after he said that tweet and made that video. from pompeo, mattis and bolton. they worked all weekend to convince him. and they managed to raise, you know, the panic level but not stop the withdrawal. as a result, maltettis left in middle of the week and the withdrawal has began. trying to slow-roll this, but it's too late. and the idea that pence would come out after all that's happened. again, with the son in the military. it's stunning to me that he would get up and say those things without acknowledging the war dead. they did later in the day with a strong statement but the ince e insensitivity to the losses of life, but disastrous to declare victory when there is none. >> i would argue what's most insensitive to the loss of life is staying in syria when it's
not in our clear national interest. and having -- not having a clear strategy for the men and women that we choose to deploy on foreign soil in the name of our national interests. so i think that this long-term war that's going on, that's not authorized by congress, i think that's the fundamental problem and how we address terror and talk about terror and the cries that, oh, we're leaving syria to be a safe haven when that just isn't true necessarily. safe havens have not been what has caused the majority of terrorist attacks over the last decades. so we need to look at as a whole our terrorism strategy and how we go to war with the seriousness that our troops deserve. >> we need to leave it there. we also need to figure out what our messaging and mission is. think about what the last few weeks, last two years are like for our allies. president says one thing. his advisers say another. not just our adversaries but our
allies. can they believe in what the united states says? think about that. coming up, the very real effects of the government shutdown. more signs this morning that it could do long term damage to the economy. before we get to that, i've got to share this story. it is very good news. microsoft, it is taking a huge step when it comes to the homelessness crisis, specifically in its hometown of seattle. the tech giant is putting up 500 million bucks to fight the inequality that has spread in areas that has housed some big tech companies. the money will pay for construction of affordable homes for middle and low income residents. thank you, microsoft. that's good business. d business take your razor, yup. alright, up and down, never side to side, shaquem. you got it? come on, get back. quem, you a second behind your brother, stay focused. can't nobody beat you, can't nobody beat you.
hard work baby, it gonna pay off. you got this. with the one hundred and forty-first pick, the seattle seahawks select. alright, you got it, shaquem. alright, let me see. introducing zero account fees for brokerage accounts. and zero minimums to open an account. at fidelity, those zeros really add up. ♪ maybe i'll win, saved by zero ♪
at fidelity, those zeros really add up. iyou may be at increased riskf for pneumococcal pneumonia -a potentially serious bacterial lung disease that can disrupt your routine for weeks. in severe cases, pneumococcal pneumonia can put you in the hospital. it can hit quickly, without warning, making you miss out on what matters most. a single dose of the prevnar 13® vaccine can help protect you from pneumococcal pneumonia. prevnar 13® is approved for adults to help prevent infections from 13 strains of the bacteria that cause pneumococcal pneumonia. don't get prevnar 13® if you have had a severe allergic reaction to the vaccine or its ingredients. adults with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects were pain, redness and swelling at the injection site, limited arm movement, fatigue, headache, muscle pain, joint pain, less appetite, vomiting, fever, chills, and rash. prevention begins with prevnar 13®. ask your doctor or pharmacist about prevnar 13®.
and some of you are somtoyota owners, right?ners yeah - yup would you be surprised to hear that honda is the most reliable car company? honda's reliable. well actually, it's not honda. really? what!? - toyota! it's not toyota either. chevy! based on a nationwide survey, chevy is more reliable than toyota and honda.
wow! get $4,500 total cash allowance on select equinox vehicles in stock when you finance with gm financial. that's 16% below msrp on this chevy equinox. find new roads at your local chevy dealer. timing now for my favorite part of the show, money, power, politics. with the partial government shutdown nearing the end of its fourth week, it is looking less like a blip on the political radar and more like a potentially serious economic crisis. according to s&p, the economy has already lost nearly 5 billion bucks in lost productivity and decreasing demand for contractors. and even if those 800,000 workers eventually get paid, analysts are warning the damage has been done. politico's chief economic correspondent ben white wrote about all of this. he joins me now. b ben, it is not just about those workers getting back pay.
every day, we talk to restaurant owners, newspaper vendors, who are saying my business is down 80 prl 80%. talk to me about the broader long-term impacts. the ceo of jpmorgan has us pretty scared. >> he talked about the first quarter growth could wind up being close to zero because of this. it's not just the 800,000 workers getting paid, it's all the government contractor whose business isn't getting done. it's the communities surrounding those contractors who don't have business. everybody else. that goes on down the line. the bigger picture not just the shutdown, it is the fundamental view setting in to consumers and businesses that the american government simply doesn't work. they can't find any agreement on this over some ridiculous border wall situation. then you have the march 1 deadline to get a deal with china on trade. then you have the debt limit coming up in the summer. if people start to think this government is broken, cab not serve the american people in any significant way, that impacts
consumer confidence. the economy was already softening heading into this shutdown. the accumulative effect is could we get tipped into recession later this year? yes, partly because washington is so fundamentally dysfunctional. >> even though there's 800,000 people and a lot of others affected there are still millions of americans saying what does it have to do with me? i still have a job. so what, i'm still getting paid, why should those people care? >> they should care because if the confidence erodes in this way, businesses are not going to want to hire more people. they're not going to want to give raises. they're not going to be that confident in making new investments in the future. so right now, you might look at this and say this isn't affecting me other than maybe i'm waiting in line a little bit longer at the airport. if economic growth grinds to a halt, that means businesses start firing people. we lose jobs in recessionings. that's what recessionings are.
they're contraction in economic growth. you may not be concerned about this government shutdown now. you will be concerned if we go into recession and markets start to slighde. >> i see lawmakers kind of acting like all we have to do is make sure these furloughed workers get back pay and everything will be back to normal. >> that's not entirely true. it is true that if the shutdown were to end tomorrow or even before the next round of federal paychecks get missed next week, back pay gets back into the economy. it limits the damage from the shutdown. that is absolutely possible. this could wind up being a small bore event. a lot of the stuff, if you're a federal worker who didn't get paid and took out a payday loan or put money on your credit card to pay for expenses, that damage continues past the shutdown, even after you get paid. you still have to pay that money back. maybe your credit rating went down. that stuff stays in the economy. if you're a government contractor who didn't get your business done and you can't get new business, you go out of
business that doesn't come back. there is damage, no matter what happens with back pay. it is possible that we get the shutdown over with and things are not that bad. but the bigger question is, is this just the first stage of a series of really crappy government issues for the rest of the year. with china trade, with the dead limit, is it the first stage in the dysfunctional government in 2019. >> i love it when you come to visit. i don't love it so much i'll start a twitter handle for ben calling him a sex symbol. still to come, iowa congressman steve king facing backlash over his racist comments. i'm going to correct that, his latest racist comments. what do the voters, the ones who just re-elected him two months ago for the ninth time, what do they think? we're going to go to iowa.
you should be mad your neighbor always wants to hang out. and you should be mad your smart fridge is unnecessarily complicated. but you're not mad, because you have e*trade which isn't complicated. their tools make trading quicker and simpler. so you can take on the markets with confidence. don't get mad. get e*trade and start trading today. don't get mad. hey, darryl. would you choose the network rated #1 in the nation by the experts, or the one awarded by the people? uh... correct! you don't have to choose, 'cause, uh... oh! (vo) switch to the network awarded by rootmetrics and j.d. power. buy one of our best phones, get one on us.
so we improved everything. we used 50% fewer ingredients added one handed pumps and beat the top safety standards the new johnson's® choose gentle ( ♪ ) dealing with psoriatic arthritis pain was so frustrating. my skin... it was embarrassing. my joints... they hurt. the pain and swelling. the tenderness. the psoriasis. tina: i had to find something that worked on all of this. i found cosentyx. now, watch me.
real people with active psoriatic arthritis are getting real relief with cosentyx. it's a different kind of targeted biologic. cosentyx treats more than just the joint pain of psoriatic arthritis. it even helps stop further joint damage. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms. if your inflammatory bowel disease symptoms develop or worsen, or if you've had a vaccine or plan to. serious allergic reactions may occur. i got real relief. i got clearer skin and feel better. now, watch me. get real relief with cosentyx. get real relief p3 it's meat, cheese and nuts. i keep my protein interesting. oh yea, me too. i have cheese and uh these herbs. p3 snacks. the more interesting way to get your protein.
points. so ultimately what do these latest comments -- do those ultimately turn off a lot of those republican voters that stood by steve king. this is what a few of us told us. >> he doesn't represent me. well, he does but not my views. i think he gets in there because of negative feelings. >> should he resign? >> yes, he should. i hope he does. >> he was very instrumental in getting highway 20 all the way over to dubuque, a four-lane highway. but right now -- >> so you feel you had reason to vote for him in the past? >> yes, a very good reason. he did a good job but must have bumped his head or something because i wouldn't give him the time of day now. >> steve king, your congressman. should he resign? >> no. >> why? >> because -- >> everybody slips. >> everybody slips a little bit. i don't think he meant what he meant. he's trying to tell the them pop. >> i hope that's the way it is. >> stephanie, among republican
voters that we talk torksd we heard as many yesterday like those last couple you heard from that said steve king should not resign. but i want to make the point of laverne, that gentlemen in the iowa hawkeyes jacket. he vote forward steve king in 2018 and also vote forward donald trump and he was very articulate in speak with us that he has no intention of voting for steve king again. he said that voters should go and fire steve king now. but also he said he has no intention of voting for donald trump again. he said he's a life-long republican. and i want to pay specific attention to that point because donald trump and mike pence, they stood alongside steve king, along with the likes of the senators here. chuck grassley, joanie ernst and kim reynolds. the republican party in the state has long stood by steve king. i've spent more time here than anywhere else and steve king has long been a staple in the state because the republican party has known he brings in specific republican voters. and yet who has not spoken out
against steve king's latest comments? mike pence and donald trump. mike pence called him just this last fall a man of icntegrity, man of principle. there is silence. that's something the republican party should pay attention to because of voters like laverne. >> i sincerely appreciate it. i love getting out of this newsroom and for you talking to the american people. still to come -- more oufr top stories. the president's attorney general rudy giuliani shifting the goal post. these things are in like a parking lot. saying he never said there was no collusion and michael cohen, the president's former fixer now admitting he helped rig online polls in favor of the president and at the president's direction. the only fda-approved 3-in-1 copd treatment. ♪ trelegy. the power of 1-2-3 ♪ trelegy 1-2-3 trelegy
with trelegy and the power of 1-2-3, i'm breathing better. trelegy works 3 ways to... ...open airways,... ...keep them open... ...and reduce inflammation... ...for 24 hours of better breathing. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. trelegy is not for asthma. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling,.. ...problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. think your copd medicine is doing enough? maybe you should think again. ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy and the power of 1-2-3. ♪ trelegy 1-2-3 save at trelegy.com. got it. ran out of ink and i have a big meeting today. and 2 boxes of twizzlers... yeah, uh...for the team. the team? gooo team... order online pickup in an hour. and, now save $250 on a lenovo 2-in-1 flex. at office depot officemax.
you know how we like to end this show. no matter what, there's always good news somewhere and we think good news ruhles. yesterday my friend and colleague hon hans nichols brou us this story of a woman so in need of cash, she pawned her wedding ring. when that woman's family learned that she sold her ring, on their own, they contacted the pawn shop owner, angela huffman, and they bought the ring back for her. that is who we are as a nation. that is such a great story. her family is amazing.
and to everyone throughoout the tweeting and e-mailing me that you may not have a ton to give but want to help some of these furloughed workers. i have a list for you of ways that you can help out and i sincerely appreciate you even wanting to. that is what makes this country great. that wraps us up this hour. i'm stephanie ruhle. coming up, my friend hallie jackson. i am hallie jackson in washington. where, hey, it's throwback thursday. and as we walk memory lane, it takes us down the path of all those times the president said there was no collusion between his campaign and russia, like a million times. except now his own lawyer is opening the door to exactly that. what rudy giuliani is telling nbc news just moments ago about those stunning new comments that moved the goal posts. our new interview coming up. plus, across the country, the situation going from bad to worse for federal workers. some now raiding retirement accounts, missing car payments, heading to food banks to feed their families. we're talking with one man